Also check out a cognitive narratologist named Lisa Zunshine. She thinks about narrative as an exercise in other mind theorizing.
Finally, have you gotten into Knaugaard yet? The narration is not as rich as Proust, but the autofiction adds some interesting density and meta-qualities. The volumes are un-even in quality, but they offer deep immersion. I am pretty certain volume 1 will age well.
Yes! Started the Recherché late in college, finished during the pandemic... I haven’t thought/read much about free indirect discourse, but I think one of the things reading Proust did for me (more so than many other novels) was to give language to aspects of interiority that I didn’t have words for before!
I will check out Zunshine, and I haven’t gotten into Knaugaard yet, but I will have to check out both! I recently discovered a series that seems similar in a few ways to Proust called A Dance to the Music of Time (the name is evocative) that I hope to read someday as well.
While I’m rambling, I must ask if you’ve read it as well! I’ve only met one other person so far who’s stuck with Proust all the way, and it’s my high school librarian
I have only made through the first two volumes. I started reading them during the first year of my Ph.D. program. I was working on a essay on the disruptive powers of musical description. I really like some of the musical passages in the first volume. Proust is amazing--on another level. He is really influential on narratology. Gerard Genette wrote his seminal work on Narrative Discourse and Proust was his primary example. Since then, narratology has been trying to redefining itself as a multimodal discipline --- but still struggles to get out from under the grip of the novel.
Yeah, Zunshine is great. I was thinking one of these cognitive narratologists might be getting into AI stuff. They might be a good interview. I will dig around and see if I can find someone of interest for you.
A Dance to the Music of Time definitely looks like an homage piece. Never heard of it. 12 Volumes, wow!!! If you like interiority, be sure not to miss Eliot's Middlemarch or James' Golden Bowl. Much more socially oriented than Proust --- but brilliant interior monologue and free indirect discourse through. Edith Wharton is also very good. The last gasp of realism before the big modernist explosion.
The second volume is such a delight! I found The Guermantes Way harder to get through. That’s fascinating, on narratology, and indeed I also loved some of the passages describing Vinteuil.
Yes, a cognitive narratologist could be a fascinating interview! Thanks for offering to do that.
Middlemarch is lovely—I haven’t read Golden Bowl or any Edith Wharton, but will add them to my list!
Yes... Middlemarch is pure symmetry. Proust has more asymmetry and anarchy as the level of sentence, paragraph, and larger global structures. The texts allow for different kinds of mental and emotional forms. I will have to dig back into Proust when I have another clearing... perhaps this winter.
Wow... this is a treat! Perhaps Proust is nearer in my future than I thought. Sometimes you just need someone to spur you onward... Be well. Good reading to you!
Into Proust, huh? Have you thought much about free indirect discourse as a mode of mind reading? https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C36&q=free+indirect+discourse&btnG=#d=gs_qabs&t=1698023124100&u=%23p%3DMilL_Gmq-MoJ
Also check out a cognitive narratologist named Lisa Zunshine. She thinks about narrative as an exercise in other mind theorizing.
Finally, have you gotten into Knaugaard yet? The narration is not as rich as Proust, but the autofiction adds some interesting density and meta-qualities. The volumes are un-even in quality, but they offer deep immersion. I am pretty certain volume 1 will age well.
Cheers!
Yes! Started the Recherché late in college, finished during the pandemic... I haven’t thought/read much about free indirect discourse, but I think one of the things reading Proust did for me (more so than many other novels) was to give language to aspects of interiority that I didn’t have words for before!
I will check out Zunshine, and I haven’t gotten into Knaugaard yet, but I will have to check out both! I recently discovered a series that seems similar in a few ways to Proust called A Dance to the Music of Time (the name is evocative) that I hope to read someday as well.
While I’m rambling, I must ask if you’ve read it as well! I’ve only met one other person so far who’s stuck with Proust all the way, and it’s my high school librarian
I have only made through the first two volumes. I started reading them during the first year of my Ph.D. program. I was working on a essay on the disruptive powers of musical description. I really like some of the musical passages in the first volume. Proust is amazing--on another level. He is really influential on narratology. Gerard Genette wrote his seminal work on Narrative Discourse and Proust was his primary example. Since then, narratology has been trying to redefining itself as a multimodal discipline --- but still struggles to get out from under the grip of the novel.
Yeah, Zunshine is great. I was thinking one of these cognitive narratologists might be getting into AI stuff. They might be a good interview. I will dig around and see if I can find someone of interest for you.
A Dance to the Music of Time definitely looks like an homage piece. Never heard of it. 12 Volumes, wow!!! If you like interiority, be sure not to miss Eliot's Middlemarch or James' Golden Bowl. Much more socially oriented than Proust --- but brilliant interior monologue and free indirect discourse through. Edith Wharton is also very good. The last gasp of realism before the big modernist explosion.
Be well!!!
The second volume is such a delight! I found The Guermantes Way harder to get through. That’s fascinating, on narratology, and indeed I also loved some of the passages describing Vinteuil.
Yes, a cognitive narratologist could be a fascinating interview! Thanks for offering to do that.
Middlemarch is lovely—I haven’t read Golden Bowl or any Edith Wharton, but will add them to my list!
Yes... Middlemarch is pure symmetry. Proust has more asymmetry and anarchy as the level of sentence, paragraph, and larger global structures. The texts allow for different kinds of mental and emotional forms. I will have to dig back into Proust when I have another clearing... perhaps this winter.
I dig a little digger on the narratology front:
Here is a sample:
Classic example: Jahn Manfred (1999) https://www.researchgate.net/publication/344266563_'Speak_friend_and_enter'_Garden_Paths_Artificial_Intelligence_and_Cognitive_Narratology
Classic example: David Herman (2000) https://www.imageandnarrative.be/inarchive/narratology/davidherman.htm
Somewhat recent: Living Handbook of Narratology: Story Generator Algorithms (2012) https://www-archiv.fdm.uni-hamburg.de/lhn/node/35.html
Much more recent example (2020): Akimoto and Ogato
https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Consideration-of-Fundamental-Methods-and-Principles-Akimoto-Ogata/d4c2ff66be3d6799569904718a5d802012b5d29c
Much more recent example (2021) Mark Coeckelbergh:
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00146-021-01375-x
Enjoy!!!
Symmetry is such a good way of putting this! And thank you for the recommendations, I will definitely go through these.
On Proust, a couple of references you might enjoy if you get back into it (or even if you don’t!):
- Paintings in Proust is a nice visual companion https://wwnorton.com/books/9780500293423
- Marcel Proust 1871-1922, A Centennial Volume had some wonderful essays https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/marcel-proust-1871-1922--a-centennial-volume_elizabeth-bowen_anthony-powell/1214910/
- Proust’s Recherché and Hegelian Teleology (very neat article!) https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00201741003612153
- “Les Moi en Moi”: The Proustian Self in Philosophical Perspective https://www.jstor.org/stable/20057649
Wow... this is a treat! Perhaps Proust is nearer in my future than I thought. Sometimes you just need someone to spur you onward... Be well. Good reading to you!
Likewise!